UNRWA chief admits he has no way to know whether Hamas infiltrated UNRWA

Philippe Lazzarini, Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), attempted to defend his organization's conduct during an interview with Stephen Sackur on BBC's HARDtalk on Friday.

The interview comes only a few days after Israel struck a UNRWA school, killing at least 18, according to Hamas, of which six were UNRWA workers.

The IDF defended the strike, saying that nine of the people killed were members of Hamas, including three UNRWA workers.

Lazzarini told Sackur that not only were UNRWA staff being targeted in these attacks, but that UN premises were also being targeted, saying that two-thirds of their installations had been damaged and at least 500 people killed.

Targeting UNRWA

Sackur questioned him over the idea that staff were being targeted, citing the IDF claims that numerous UNRWA workers were Hamas members, asking him if he was aware that Hamas had turned the school into a "command and control center"?

"I have absolutely no information. This is an allegation coming from the Israeli [side]. I have no means to verify this information," Lazzarini told Sackur.

Sackur pushed him further, questioning him about Israeli allegations that Hamas consistently used UNRWA facilities as cover for their activities.

Lazzarini said he was concerned about the use of UNRWA property by armed Palestinian groups, but also the IDF.

Sackur asked how he was informed that a group had used their property.

"Always through the media," Lazzarini answered, "We have never received information ahead of a military strike on these installations."

"Does that mean your staff aren't telling you about Hamas's presence inside their facilities? That seems to be a fundamental problem," Sackur asked.

Lazzarini defended this, claiming that if staff knew about the existence of a military base inside their facilities, they would be unlikely to stay there or expose themselves to that danger.

Sackur then asked whether UNRWA was aware that some of its staff were Hamas members. Lazzarini responded by saying that this was information that was coming only from Israel, that investigations into UNRWA-Hamas membership were inconclusive, and that Israel had not provided UNRWA with evidence of membership.

Lazzarini blamed these accusations on Israeli political decisions to eliminate and dismantle UNRWA as part of an overall goal by Israeli politicians to remove Palestinian refugee status and block the creation of a Palestinian state.

Sackur asked him how he would respond to the Israeli claim that it is not about UNRWA but about Hamas's infiltration of UNRWA and recruitment of UNRWA staff, citing both evidence from the IDF and investigative reports by journalists.

Lazzarini said that first, they fired staff that were involved in the use of UNRWA property on October 7, but also that they had opened an investigation into Hamas membership in UNRWA and that that investigation was inconclusive, but that no fired staff member had been rehired.