'Real-life elements beyond genetics': An interview with Gila Green

With a Good Eye, the title of Canadian-Israeli author Gila Green’s novel, alludes to a good luck charm the protagonist wears to ward off the “evil eye.” However, when reading Green’s fiction, it becomes evident that the author indeed has a very good eye when it comes to analyzing human behavior.

A coming-of-age thriller, With a Good Eye is Green’s most recently published novel. She is also an editor and author of short stories and nonfiction and teaches creative writing and English as a foreign language.

In the following interview with the Magazine, Green discusses some of her literary works and shares her thoughts on topics that she writes about, ranging from family dysfunction and antisemitism to Israeli society and politics.

Your most recent novel, ‘With a Good Eye’ [2024], centers on a 19-year-old girl with a Yemenite-Jewish father and an Ashkenazi mother, living in Ottawa. You, too, are the daughter of a Yemenite-Jewish father and an Ashkenazi mother, and you’re originally from Ottawa. Is that the extent of the similarities between you and these characters?

In With a Good Eye, there are other parallels to my own life. For instance, the protagonist’s mother is a stage actress, mirroring my own mother’s career. From a young age, she toured Canada, earning accolades and scholarships. The plays featured in the novel are ones I grew up hearing about, as my mother recounted her experiences of acting them onstage. I had to grow up with a mother who never recovered from the future she’d envisioned for herself – the beauty and talent she was celebrated for in her youth – that becoming a mother stole from her. Children were not meant to be part of the performance. As the youngest child, I felt this intensely. Left to fester, resentment and bitterness only run deeper over the years.

In addition, though I am not a psychologist or therapist, I don’t need anyone to tell me that, like the character in the novel, my father suffered from PTSD as a war veteran. He was a 12-year-old living in Jerusalem during the 1948 War of Independence, a paratrooper in 1956, and served in a tank battalion in 1967 – all of this aside from years of reserve duty. It would take me decades to realize this – because children take whatever environment they are placed in and deem it ‘normal.’ But war has never left my father to this day, and it was infused in every aspect of how he related to me on the most day-to-day, mundane level, such as lacing my shoes in grade school so that they would open in the fastest way if I stepped on a land mine. The fragments of war that infused him led to social isolation and distrust, mood swings, and episodes of rage.

The two war memories in With a Good Eye are authentic memories. Eighteen years ago, when he was 70, I conducted in-depth interviews with him, which I translated from Hebrew. I changed names for privacy.

‘With a Good Eye’ and your forthcoming novel, ‘The Inheritance,’ an adult psychological thriller set for release in 2025, both center on a young woman with dysfunctional parents and an older brother. Why did you maintain that same family structure? What inspired you to write about these types of families?

Dysfunction exists within every family unit, but the degree varies, prompting us to categorize them as, for example, ‘normal,’ ‘high/low functioning,’ or ‘pathological.’ Today, these labels are commonly discussed across social media platforms and in popular culture. I grew up with TV shows that sold the ‘perfect’ family façade. I always felt a lack of genuineness to these shows. Loving and happy families are not exempt from struggles with addiction or mental illness. I wanted to write more real characters and constellations. This theme of family dysfunction holds universal significance and continues to intrigue me.

When I was writing With a Good Eye, the term ‘narcissist’ was being used liberally online, in novels, and in popular culture, often to describe behaviors ranging from vanity to self-centeredness or pettiness. However, genuine narcissism as a personality disorder is far more complex and harrowing, often leading victims into denial and self-doubt. Parents exhibiting narcissistic traits can pose serious dangers to their children, a reality I’ve unfortunately experienced firsthand.

In With A Good Eye, I aimed to portray actual narcissism as a personality disorder, recognizing its various manifestations along a spectrum. Having encountered it more than I’d care to admit, I understand its lifelong impact and sought to delve into this in the mother-daughter relationship depicted in the novel. Yet, it was very important to me to depict well-rounded, nuanced characters and not stereotypes or clichés.

Since Oct. 7, the focus of the book has shifted. When I wrote it, everyone was talking about NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), and the mainstream Jewish reader thought antisemitism was mostly fringe or in the past and thought little of PTSD from wars. So, I thought the mother character would be the greater focus. Now, it’s the opposite. Antisemitism is clearly not fringe, and there’s a lot more attention on soldiers and trauma.

Originally, With a Good Eye and The Inheritance were part of the same manuscript, hence they share similar family dynamics. Over time, I separated the manuscript into two novels, and The Inheritance marks a departure as my first novel without Jewish characters or themes.

Your 2013 novel, ‘King of the Class,’ fictionalized the State of Israel being divided into two states – one religious and one secular. Interestingly, you made Yair Lapid prime minister of the secular state, and this was a few years before he even entered politics. As we know, before Oct. 7 the country was deeply divided, and Lapid was clearly a leader on one side. Was your novel somewhat prophetic?

My reaction to what is called ‘Koach Kaplan’ [the anti-government protest movement], unfortunately, was not one of surprise. This has not sprung out of nowhere. I don’t think my novel was prophetic; rather, as someone trained as a journalist and a lifelong student of literature, and as a writer and editor for more than two decades and a language teacher, I am alert to subtext. These trends have been apparent to anyone who can read between the lines and were clearly present in 2011 when I began writing this book.

It is common for people to argue regarding haredim in Israeli society, but it’s always through a financial lens. What about the social cohesion lens? How do people imagine societies staying together? By dividing them into smaller and smaller sectors and teaching widely different values, histories, and goals without anything to unite them? Do people really think the threat of an external enemy is enough to keep the country united? It’s not; not in the long term.

For years, I have been saying that a society that has separate education systems (independent, secular, Arab, Religious Zionist, haredi, etc. – and there are sub-divisions within those as well) that teach different histories, values, and narratives risks a lack of social cohesion on a national level. The idea that it’s totally fine, that everyone will meet up and meld together in the army, is unrealistic, magical thinking.

I read a lot at the time about Lapid’s ambition to be prime minister and reactions along the lines of how someone with his army record, or absence of it, has no chance whatsoever. People laughed and mocked; the reaction was very strong. That’s a red flag right there if someone is looking for trends. I chose Lapid specifically because of the reaction on the part of so many at the time who claimed that this was completely ‘absurd,’ that he was ‘dreaming,’ and that this could ‘never happen,’ and so on.

If you read that enough, you have to start asking why there is such a strong reaction, a very emotional reaction, against it. People do not react strongly to things they truly believe will never happen or that they’re secure about. They react strongly to their fears, to threats (on the flip side, also to their loves/passions), and this provoked such a strong, mocking backlash that there had to be more to it.

I also chose him to make a point, to hold a magnifying glass to people’s fears. It was done in a subtle way. It was my first novel after years of short story writing, so I am sure that today, seven novels later, it would come off differently, but I am nonetheless content with it the way it is.

Remember, I had a front-row seat to the divisions, as I had been living in Beit Shemesh for 13 years at the time of writing and had seen violence, intimidation, and threats among Jews. I grew up in Ottawa, and several of my earliest memories are of antisemitism. I recall asking my mother why we were called ‘dirty Jews’ in the local park, having students arrive upset to school because bars of soap had been thrown at them, and similar incidents that continued all the way through my studies at Ottawa’s Carleton University. So, what I experienced here in Israel between among was something I was unprepared for.

Do you believe the country is still very polarized, despite the facade of unity? Are you optimistic that it can heal?

The ongoing Koach Kaplan demonstrations highlight the continued polarization within Israeli society. However, I hesitate to use the word “very” to describe this polarization. Even if the numbers at these protests reach a couple of hundred thousand [in the current demonstrations, which they haven’t yet], it’s essential to recognize that Israel’s population is nearing the 10 million mark. In my view, the vast majority of Israelis do not align with these and other fringe movements but instead occupy the center ground.

Unlike the United States, which is often portrayed as divided into two main camps, I believe Israelis are divided into three: a far-Left fringe, a far-Right fringe, and a sizable center encompassing both center-Left and center-Right camps. These centrists believe in a Jewish and democratic state, as well as individualism and collectivism. Some of these ideas are mentioned in the work of Micah Goodman [a senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem, considered one of the most original and influential public intellectuals in Israel].

I believe that it’s crucial for Israeli society to understand that the center represents the majority and holds the potential to bring about healing and unity. Rather than viewing those around us as “other,” we Israelis must recognize that the majority are centrists and want the diverse tapestry of Israel to continue. By acknowledging this, we can resist the pull of the far-Left (radical individualism) and far-Right (radical collectivism) fringes and work towards a more unified future. I’m optimistic that this can happen; I believe the will is there.

Did you always want to become a writer, especially of fiction?

Yes. Moreover, I’ve always been passionate about broadening the scope of Jewish literature to encompass Israeli, Sephardi, Yemenite, and Jews with diverse levels of religious observance. Growing up, I often found the portrayal of Jews in literature to be narrow, leaving me searching for representations of different aspects of Jewish identity. And I never found any representations of anyone with my own background.

While there’s great value in narratives about the Holocaust – and I’ve edited several of them – I’ve long felt that too many Jewish books focus solely on that tragic period, neglecting many other stories, including the stories of contemporary, living Jews navigating their everyday lives.

Over the years, I’ve faced pushback for my efforts to diversify Jewish literature. For instance, when I submitted Passport Control for publication in 2017, I was asked by a new editor to change my Hebrew-speaking heroine to an Arab-speaking Christian one. When I refused, the publisher indicated to my agent that they’d slow-walk the publication date, making it effectively DOA until the contract expired.

What future projects do you have in mind?

Since Oct. 7, I’ve felt compelled to take action, much like many others, prompting me to volunteer at a national sexual assault hotline. This commitment has required extensive preparation, including classes and regular social work check-ins, diverting my attention in a different direction.

Additionally, I embarked on the project of creating the audiobook version of With A Good Eye. It’s my first venture into this medium, and I hope to continue recording more of my books to reach audiences who prefer audio formats. With the novel now released, promoting it has become a significant undertaking.

Recently, I completed the final edits for The Inheritance. The next steps involve approving the cover, conducting final proofreads, and promotion. Moreover, I had the opportunity to have my first essay translated into German and Hebrew as part of a project by the German embassy in Tel Aviv, which gathered essays from women across Israel. I’m eager to explore more projects like this to engage with audiences who speak different languages, especially as I aim to speak out more about Israel.

I’m always on the lookout for creative and compelling projects, and I’m grateful for the ongoing support from readers and advocates of Jewish literature. 

Green will discuss With a Good Eye at a literary event in Modi’in at Peerspot Office, 32 Dam Hamacabbim, on Sun., May 19, at 8 p.m. The program, including authors Sheryl Abbey and Sarah Ansbacher, will also be accessible on Zoom at https://bit.ly/4aVWuhU. (1 p.m. EST).